This past Father’s Day, in addition to being inundated by touching “Dad” stories from media personalities, I listened to an Honestly podcast about fatherhood:
I think I get the perspective you offer, Joel, and I appreciate several aspects in it. But to me patriarchy was embodied in laws and financial practices denying women the right to vote, to get credit cards, to get a mortgage, to own property, to have custody of children. While many of those patriarchal practices were eliminated by the 1980s, it’s not clear to me that the underlying beliefs that established them went away. Read a summary of “The Woman They Could Not Silence” for a harrowing account from the late 19th century (I’d go for a review, not the full book). Or consider what the Southern Baptists did to women clergy just last month.
As always, your comment offer expansive arguments to my points. I really appreciate it, and I will look into the book. I'm unaware of the Southern Baptist thing, so that will require some research.
I discussed some of my reflections with my Mom before finishing this essay. She recalled that my grandmother on father's side was politically active as a suffragette, yet didn't alienate her family. My grandmother on Mom's side (one of Rosie's riveters) was a substantially more conservative voter than my grandfather, and quite independent in her views, disclosing her choices only after the results were in. I was personally raised in a household surrounded by strong, thoughtful women. (Still am!) One of my observations from all of this was the lack of position power exercised by the men. If they had it, they either didn't want it or decided not to use it. I notice the same characteristics in the couples with whom we share community today. I think most men have trouble with the idea of a patriarchy - but they don't get a lot of ink...
I have read your articules in the past and walked away thinking you have an interesting perspective and one that I mostly concurred with. Unfortunately this articule is just not even close to describing what past generation of men were and the causes of women to change dramatically. I think you need to consult with an anthropologist or at least speak to some well educated women to get their perspective. While many men can identify with your life's story, many will think it represents just small town America. I don't think that is a negative but I do think you should be careful not to extend your experience beyond what it is.
Hey, Dan. Thanks for reading. You are correct that there are many more experienced commentators than me, and my small town roots show through. Hopefully, I can be excused for over-simplifying the historic relationship between the sexes. It’s hard to discuss the changing, or timeless, challenges of fatherhood without expressing that context, which may be mis-perceived, as you point out. My family and social community includes many highly accomplished women, though, and those I’ve spoken with express widely divergent viewpoints on this topic.
So much of the problem with 'patriarchy' is the definition. I would certainly be willing to say that patriarchy is alive, and well, and will remain so because it’s intrinsic to the human condition. But not if you force me to allow feminists to define what patriarchy actually is. Or was, or however you put it.
The word 'patriarch' means 'father-rule' and it is used in the New Testament to describe Abraham, David, and the twelve sons of Jacob. It is found, I would argue, in Jeremiah 35, and in God's description of Abraham:
Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.a
And in the statement of Joshua:
Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
I think I get the perspective you offer, Joel, and I appreciate several aspects in it. But to me patriarchy was embodied in laws and financial practices denying women the right to vote, to get credit cards, to get a mortgage, to own property, to have custody of children. While many of those patriarchal practices were eliminated by the 1980s, it’s not clear to me that the underlying beliefs that established them went away. Read a summary of “The Woman They Could Not Silence” for a harrowing account from the late 19th century (I’d go for a review, not the full book). Or consider what the Southern Baptists did to women clergy just last month.
As always, your comment offer expansive arguments to my points. I really appreciate it, and I will look into the book. I'm unaware of the Southern Baptist thing, so that will require some research.
I discussed some of my reflections with my Mom before finishing this essay. She recalled that my grandmother on father's side was politically active as a suffragette, yet didn't alienate her family. My grandmother on Mom's side (one of Rosie's riveters) was a substantially more conservative voter than my grandfather, and quite independent in her views, disclosing her choices only after the results were in. I was personally raised in a household surrounded by strong, thoughtful women. (Still am!) One of my observations from all of this was the lack of position power exercised by the men. If they had it, they either didn't want it or decided not to use it. I notice the same characteristics in the couples with whom we share community today. I think most men have trouble with the idea of a patriarchy - but they don't get a lot of ink...
Thanks for reading!
Joel
I have read your articules in the past and walked away thinking you have an interesting perspective and one that I mostly concurred with. Unfortunately this articule is just not even close to describing what past generation of men were and the causes of women to change dramatically. I think you need to consult with an anthropologist or at least speak to some well educated women to get their perspective. While many men can identify with your life's story, many will think it represents just small town America. I don't think that is a negative but I do think you should be careful not to extend your experience beyond what it is.
Hey, Dan. Thanks for reading. You are correct that there are many more experienced commentators than me, and my small town roots show through. Hopefully, I can be excused for over-simplifying the historic relationship between the sexes. It’s hard to discuss the changing, or timeless, challenges of fatherhood without expressing that context, which may be mis-perceived, as you point out. My family and social community includes many highly accomplished women, though, and those I’ve spoken with express widely divergent viewpoints on this topic.
Thanks Joel, l really got a a bit of joy from the essay.
The thing that came into my head was the bridge from Bob Dylan’s “ I Want You”
“How all my fathers , they’ve gone down
True love they’ve been without it
But all their daughters put me down
‘ cause I don’t talk about it”
As to Maslow’s hierarchy; I get the physiological one but “ self actualization”, isn’t that just closing to “do or not do” like Yoda said ?
So, Kasimir replied to my comment (in notes) and we agreed to a letter exchange on this subject. Everyone is free to join in!
https://vonwriting.substack.com/p/the-inevitability-of-patriarchy
So much of the problem with 'patriarchy' is the definition. I would certainly be willing to say that patriarchy is alive, and well, and will remain so because it’s intrinsic to the human condition. But not if you force me to allow feminists to define what patriarchy actually is. Or was, or however you put it.
The word 'patriarch' means 'father-rule' and it is used in the New Testament to describe Abraham, David, and the twelve sons of Jacob. It is found, I would argue, in Jeremiah 35, and in God's description of Abraham:
Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.a
And in the statement of Joshua:
Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.